The Scoop with Tanya Flanagan

Unknown Speaker 0:00
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Unknown Speaker 0:26
Good morning, and thank you for joining me for the scoop with Tanya Flanagan. I'm so happy you decided to wake up and start your day with me. Here on the scoop, where we talk about life, joy, funny moments, trending topics, and so much more. We promise to keep you in the know and find out what you know. So let's get started.

Unknown Speaker 0:53
Good morning, and welcome to another Sunday here on the scope with me. Tanya Flanagan, I want to thank you for getting up once again. And joining me here at KU envy 91.5 Jaza more for a terrific conversation. If you were with me last week, we were talking with Dr. Carmen Jones, who is a local pediatrician. She's been here for a number of years, and has taken her work in pediatrics and just evolved her career over the years in medicine as a whole. And we were talking about cannabis and medical benefits of cannabis. And we did not have the time to get into the new chapter of her life. And I want I'm excited to welcome her back. Dr. Jones, thank you for joining me again this Sunday. Thank you for getting up two weeks in a row early in the morning. How are you?

Unknown Speaker 1:44
Thank you for having me again, you know, I love you because I'm up to five days in a row. Not my jam,

Unknown Speaker 1:51
by now. But it's a great time of year to get up and just see the sun and have some coffee, and then jump into a deep conversation and talk about things that matter to this community. And that will help us just know more than we knew yesterday and maybe help us make some wise decisions, especially in this arena of cannabis. So last week, we're talking about all things cannabis, how it's evolved, what you've done in the area. Quickly, recapping, quick recap, because we may have some new listeners. So just a quick recap, because I want to get into the new space that we didn't talk about last week. So who are you? And I don't know. But is it three seconds or less people say or something?

Unknown Speaker 2:36
Yeah, no problem. I'll be happy to recap. Okay, so I have been physician for quite some time. Well over 30 years, actually. And I've been in the Las Vegas area for 21 years from Chicago, and practicing pediatrics. So people tend to get really intrigued when they hear that because they want to know, how did I get from one space to the other. And so real briefly, I was asked about 12 years ago, to fill in for a fellow doctor who was doing medical marijuana card approvals for a particular company, and I ended up staying at that place for some time, kind of began to quickly see that people were improving, their health was improving. They were getting better, they were getting off opiates, and I, you know, continue to learn, continue to actually learn from a lot of them as they were experimenting. And I think the key thing I want to make sure to always say whenever I'm speaking publicly, is to tell people that patients would come back and say this sentence to me almost verbatim at least once or twice a week. Thank you for doing this, my life has been changed. And while I still practice pediatrics today, I still love my work with the children. My work with the cannabis community or medical marijuana patients has given me I think greater satisfaction. So fast forward to today. Not only do I educate patients, of all ages, of course, on how to use cannabis as medicine, but I have found a particular new area that really spoke to me and who I am as a person and how I ended up I ended up taking on a whole new project involving cannabis. So that's the brief recap. Let me know when you want me to tell you what's next.

Unknown Speaker 4:48
I'm ready to jump into what's next. So I think that it's it's become such a popular space so many people you know you have the recreational component, and then you have the There's no aspect and people struggling and wanting to understand if you've never used marijuana before for anything, and now that it is here as a medical resource, making sure people understand that, but you're going into a new direction. And a lot of times in the space of marijuana and now the legalization of it, there's the conversation that gets into the legality, and the justice component what's and how that works. And you're moving into that space to wanting to or getting into being a criminal expert on. Yeah, marijuana impacts cases where people are arrested or facing charges or recent facing court dates or what have you. Yeah, talk to me about the, what's this about? What are we doing? What are you doing?

Unknown Speaker 5:54
Okay. So let me give a little background for the public that may not know, at some point in our country's culture, we begin to demonize cannabis. It was approximately about 85 years ago, probably the late 1930s. Cannabis began to be criminalized, if you will, it was certainly vilified, which is how we got the name marijuana. It is a slang term that is not. It's discriminatory, it's racist. It is not accurate of a description. It is a moniker that was given because of the need for the government to begin to control the population. Okay. Again, I mentioned last week, if you listen, there are lots of videos on the history of cannabis in this country. Because prior to this era, cannabis was proximately 50% of the prescriptions written of cannabis in it, and of course, they call it by its scientific name. So we are trying I along with other activists and advocates are trying very hard to destigmatize it by making sure we call it what it is. So you will hear me interchange them sometimes for clarification or so that people can keep up with, you know, kind of the evolution. But for the most part, it'll be called cannabis. And I will try my best to make the distinction. So I got a phone call from a fellow physician in town. And this doctor happens to be an OB doctor who has now turned his practice into practice, you know, for hormones. But he had a patient, a former OB patient walk into his office. I'll be brief with the this vignette. It was a 22 year old young woman who was eight months pregnant, and she had a two year old at home. She had previously prior to be pregnant, gotten arrested for a DUI and was at the end of her DUI sentencing responsibilities. So she goes in. Now she's eight months pregnant after finishing her assignments given to her by the court and tested positive for cannabis. Well, the judge flipped in losses and told her that there's no way she should be using cannabis when she's eight months pregnant. The young lady explained that the doctor told her to and he didn't really the judge was not interested in hearing it. And told her she could not produce evidence that the doctor told her she could use cannabis at while pregnant if she was going to jail on Monday. So this was a Friday morning. Now, she's got till Monday morning to essentially save her own life. And I don't mean to be so dramatic. But when you're eight months pregnant with a two year old at home and your 22 year old who happens to be an African American young woman in front of a judge, that's pretty scary. So like I said, she showed up to her former OBS office in tears because her current doctors would not endorse what they told her to do. The story goes that she actually had intractable morning sickness medically that we call that hyperemesis gravidarum. And normally morning sickness lasts just the first trimester and typically goes away improves, mom is able to eat and nourish her baby or fetus. This case was unique. This mom never got better. It never got better. She was never able to eat enough. Keep enough on her stomach or gain enough weight to have a healthy baby. She was even said to high risk pregnancy. So to see the high risk pregnancy, Dr. DE perinatologist. They all Cavalier Lee told her, why don't you smoke a little pot. And so she did. Now, when I spoke to her directly, at some time greater, she says, I wasn't sitting around, you know, getting high, I was just taking a couple of hits and settle my stomach. And I think that's a general common knowledge to the public, that, you know, cancer patients or people have certain stomach issues will do well with a little candidates to help them so that they can eat their, sorry, maintain their appetite. Well, this was a case of a lady trying to not only maintain our own weight, but enough weight for her child to grow up. So nonetheless, the doctor called me knowing that this is an area of expertise for me, and I literally rallied my troops, we now have a network of other candidates, physicians I work with. And they sent me articles and language. And when it was all said and done, I had generated a five page report for the judge with 15 references. And that Monday morning, when she presented that document to the judge, he was actually I'm told kind of angry because it didn't come from her doctor who said something to her temporarily. However, the public defender, and the state attorney representing the state did not wish to proceed with the case and it was dropped. And essentially, she was saved from having to go to jail, to deliver a baby. So that when that

Unknown Speaker 12:01
no, go ahead, oh, my God, because it's a great story of a positive outcome for a mom to be who already was a mother as well. In preparing and coming into this space, and working. Were you then approached to say, we have a lot of cases like this. Now, how did this always evolve?

Unknown Speaker 12:25
Yeah, so what happened was, by me, doing this work to help this young woman, I don't have any better way to say it, except for something that was sparked in me. It was, it moves, My Spirit moved my soul. And I finally kind of realized, where I belong in this cannabis space. You know, there's people out there doing different things with the within the industry. And while yes, I was, and still am an educator, for patients, this one touched me in a different way.

Unknown Speaker 12:58
So I'm a criminal case, though, like hers. In some cases, it was a situation where she was in court for a circumstance tied to a DUI, toward the end of what sounded like her probation or accountability relative to the DUI case. And then here comes this new twist, where she tests positive for a substance what's considered a, at this point, not an illegal substance, but in theory has been for a long time, an illegal substance. And so the judge is angry and feeling like you're pregnant. So there's this irresponsibility factor and you step in save the day. In other cases, are you? Are you looking to go into spaces where you affect people who are up on criminal charges? Or how do you see this desire to work in criminal expert witness space, for those who have cases that involve cannabis charges? Right.

Unknown Speaker 13:59
So based on your conversations, you're using the word criminal, and my understanding that a lot of these cases involving cannabis use. For people who get arrested, it could be something as simple as someone getting fired from their job, because they're a medical patient. There's a lot of civil cases that are out there, or someone like getting even the use for cannabis, not alcohol. patient who happens to be a foster parent. There are so many different scenarios. So my epiphany essentially was, I know there's lots of people caught up in the criminal justice system, whether it be civil or criminal, that are going to need somebody to speak on their behalf, especially the medical patient. And I actually have a philosophy that all cannabis use is metal is medicinal and go wouldn't do that another time. But there are statistics, actually the ACLU has done reporting combination of the last two decades on statistics, particularly as it affects the African American community, I should actually say the bipoc community. Because they found that even now, with so many states legalized African American, are not being arrested at the same rate, sorry, African Americans are being arrested at a higher rate than other races, particularly the majority white race, for the same amount of use. So the statistic is almost four times the amount of arrests. That's impressive. It

Unknown Speaker 15:55
is it also ties into the long standing conversation. I know there are people advocating and fighting and you said bipoc. And I don't know that everybody knows what bipoc stands for. So when synonyms or acronyms are thrown, I like to make sure people know what those acronyms actually,

Unknown Speaker 16:14
I usually do as well. So bipoc stands for black, indigenous and people of color. And the ACLU 2020 report shows that black people are technically the actual numbers 3.64 times more likely than white people to be arrested for marijuana possession. And this is with equal rates of usage, there are still up to six to eight, or 10 times more likely being arrested in certain other states. And so what I worry about is that with all of the states making its own individual laws, about cannabis use around cannabis use, whether it be medical or adult, it is difficult to know what to do. I'll give you a great example. I have a friend whose mother is patient. Now she's in her 70s and was going on vacation. She was moving from a legal state that happens to have both medicinal and adult use to a state that has what we call low THC medical use only. Now she gets ready to leave she packs up, takes her medicine with her, ma'am, and is acting as though she's in her normal state. Luckily, nothing happened to her she was not found to have cannabis on her or get arrested at the airport or be in any sort of danger. But she's a lucky one. She went from a state where it's all legal and free, essentially, open usage to a very restricted state happened to be in the South.

Unknown Speaker 18:02
How do you see this? How do you see this? I just want to ask this question while you're on the perspective and and the perception of cannabis possession being stopped? How do you see your work aligning with that of activist groups who have are now kind of on the front lines? Because long time ago and not really that long ago, people sold and cannabis was something people found, you know, on the corner, there was the corner salesman, there was the the guy that people call when they wanted to buy something and it wasn't legal. So now it is legal. Right. But you still have all these laws that have people who were arrested on cases that had to do with marijuana possession. Is their working death by as to

Unknown Speaker 18:55
Oh, absolutely. So how do I see myself with those other advocates?

Unknown Speaker 18:59
Do you see yourself playing? And hopefully,

Unknown Speaker 19:03
there'll be the answer is hopefully synergistically. Hopefully, when, as everything has been established, hopefully they will. If they have a case, they will give me a call if they need someone to stand in and help defend a client who innocently for instance, like this lady I just mentioned, did know that she wasn't supposed to, you know, take it with her across state lines. So until the federal government and I guess the Supreme Court will have to ultimately step in I imagine there will be protests, but until the federal government decides what it wants to do with this product that is legal, by the way, that physically speaking in 38 states and three territories and the District of Columbia have medical use that's 38 states 23 Have them to territories NDC, our adult use. So we have all these different states doing their own things, which is obviously the way of the way our government was created. However, it's too difficult for the patient to understand. So it's easy to see how someone would get caught up either criminally or civilly because of just simply not knowing. Problem is, nobody's there to support that client. It'd be for the powers that be the magistrate the judge. And especially if the judge is uninformed about either the medicinal use, or even the laws and how they may zero vary in is in each state, then we got a double problem. Now we got can we continue to fill the jails with nonviolent cannabis use? Patients or not? Yes. And so yes, my goal is to as I build a company, to work with advocacy groups, Attorney organizations and other cannabis groups that are interested in this medical legal space,

Unknown Speaker 21:19
do you see your work taking you to DC? Do you see it taking you to state legislature? I mean, do you see it from a legal standpoint? I know how extensive is the conversation in terms of, of getting into that kind of space to rewrite or to impact law. Because you have to have someone, if you come in and testify, there has to be the law that supports, you know, the testimony of the legality of the claim that as a physician, a licensed physician, this is my position on.

Unknown Speaker 21:56
Yes, so I have taken some training towards this effort to become a medical expert witness. And as you can imagine, it costs a little bit and a lot of times well worth it, because that put me in a different place in space, so that I can actually be effective. And so like 95% of these cases, do not require me showing up in a courtroom like ultramatic, like on TV, these are either a report being sent, like I did with this young woman, or a deposition being given over like a zoom. So it is good thing, because that would afford me the opportunity to do multiple cases, have multiple cases at once, if need be, and to what I'm hoping to do build a team of other candidates, physicians, so that we can tackle whatever comes. I guess I like it, it's

Unknown Speaker 22:53
gonna ask, is there also an intention to educate? Because if you I see you in the Legos, but to get out and to make sure people understand, because a lot of times, this is so new to everyone, right? The people who find themselves in the situations and the families of those people who find themselves in the offender space, or what have you, whatever the case may be? I don't know. So you also have to do some educating with groups to get the information out? Is that part of what you also see yourself doing? Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 23:30
So I am already educating I'm already speaking in different spaces. But to be heard in the places and spaces that needed the most, it would seem to me a good partnership, again, with the attorney organizations. Probably the best place to start. However, general public knowledge is sorely lacking. I wish the various jurisdictions including mine here in Las Vegas, or Nevada, were more interested in education than sales. However, that's not exactly where we sit today. So it is it's kind of an uphill battle to educate the public. But again, if I'm going to be trying to combine spaces with this medical legal world, then I need to also make sure to educate the the attorneys here.

Unknown Speaker 24:32
It's one step at a time. And it's it's really an interesting conversation to think about how cannabis is evolving, and we're coming in towards the end of the show, but how the cannabis space is evolving the use of it, and then to introduce this conversation about the legality and people who are facing civil cases, criminal cases, maybe in some sort of some situations, and then educating the public that Here is another one resource like, if I'm dealing with a circumstance, I'm facing a case, now, understanding that there may be an additional component that's worth exploring, that could have something to do with preserving my freedom. I think is it's there's so many facets that you never would have thought of as we walked into the conversation about cannabis. And we are on every conversation, for recreation, to lounges to us to the gallery to the federal laws, but there's so many new avenues to explore. So I think that you're just this conversation is introducing yet another to the community to think about.

Unknown Speaker 25:44
Absolutely. Well, the thing is, it is not really for the person, the individual to know, you have to think about it like this, let's say someone has a medical malpractice case, well, they take it to the attorney, the attorney gets to work on behalf of the client. And they would call expert witnesses, the client wouldn't seek them out, right. So that's my,

Unknown Speaker 26:13
and I get that it's just one of those things where it's also good to know what you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, I've been in legal cases before, and it is amazing to watch the legal system at work, and to watch attorneys at work and as they set up cases, but it doesn't hurt to understand what's out there, whether you are the person seeking it out or your attorneys is knowledgeable enough to seek it out for you. It's just a tremendous conversation. And I wish you every success as you work to you know, make your passion you know, in your calling, we are toward the end of the show, I want to make sure people know how to reach you how to get information. So if you want to share your social media handles, let's do that, because I want people to know how to to get more from you.

Unknown Speaker 27:06
Well, thank you for that. And again, thank you for having me. It's Yes, it's definitely a passionate conversation for me that one that has been evolving, like I said over the last 12 years. And I am hoping I'm very hopeful that I can help as a team. I need to mention this before dropping my handle. I am also the chairman of the a chem freedom initiative. A Chem is an acronym for Association for cannabis, health equity and medicine. And I actually will be doing that. This same work for a nonprofit as I will be doing privately for my own company. And that company is called wildflower medical. What right now it's my wildflower medical consultants where I do my teaching, but the other division will be called wildfowl or medical experts. And so I can be reached on social media with just that wildfire medical consultants on Facebook and on Instagram. And the website is wildfire medical.com For those people who are interested in making an appointment for education and or medical cards.

Unknown Speaker 28:26
Thank you, Dr. Jones, Dr. Carmen Jones. Again, I want to thank her thank you for joining me this morning, once again to talk another week about this really interesting subject of cannabis and all things that are happening in this space as a community and as a society and as we evolve. So I hope that our listeners have learned a lot more than what they knew before listening in about cannabis. And just that as you continue to do your work and has the intended impact on the community that you're hoping for. I am excited to see how it evolves. And I think it's just a tremendous contribution that you're making to the community at a time when this is so prevalent and so necessary that people have an increased understanding. So thank you for spending your time with me again this Sunday and I want to wish you a wonderful week and all of the listeners. Oh wonderful week.

Unknown Speaker 29:22
Again. Thank you for having me. Happy holidays as they are approaching.

Unknown Speaker 29:31
I want to thank you for tuning into the scoop with me Tony Flanagan and I want to invite you to get social with me I'm on Facebook and Twitter. My name is my handle TA and YAFLA na GA N You can also find me on Instagram at Tanya almond eyes Flanagan and if you have a thought and opinion or a suggestion, don't hesitate to shoot me an email to tanya.flanagan@unlv.edu Thanks again for joining in. Stay safe and have a great week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai